“The situation of Catalan is diverse, complex, delicate and reversible”

Francesc Xavier Vila in his office. J. M. RAMOS.

“COMPANIES AND EMPLOYERS CAN ASK THEIR WORKERS TO LEARN CATALAN IF THEY DON’T KNOW IT, AND ALSO VALUE IT, FROM THEIR ARRIVAL”

“it’s very tiring trying to learn a language when people won’t speak it to you”

anna serrano / aserrano@elpuntavui.cat

Not even a third of the population speak Catalan as a common language. In 2003 the figure was 46%. Now it’s almost 14 points below, how do you see the situation?

To understand this data, you need to understand the demographic evolution of the country. During these 20 years, many people have arrived. We have gone from being the famous 6 million to being 8, mostly due to immigration. And immigration does not have Catalan as an initial language, before arriving they don’t know it, they can’t make it a common language. What has happened throughout these 20 years? The number of people who have Catalan as their habitual language has remained fairly constant, it hasn’t grown much. The number of people who don’t know it, the number of people who speak it very little and the number of people who speak it frequently without it being their habitual language has grown. In absolute numbers, the number of people who have Catalan as their habitual language has not changed much in 20 years, but as the other categories have grown, the percentage has dropped.

There is more knowledge of Catalan but, on the other hand, less is spoken.

Again, you can turn that on its head. We have fewer regular speakers as a percentage of the total population. And they find more occasions when they cannot use their language because there are people who don’t know it. This is a fact, because the population has grown. The fact that the language is known more than it is spoken is normal, what would be impossible would be the opposite. What is interesting is the situation surrounding secondary speakers; we were previously aware of it but had not analysed it so thoroughly. What do we see? That, in the last five years, there has been a growth in speakers who do not have Catalan as their habitual language, but use it. That’s why it’s important to first make people who don’t know it start learning it. And then focus on helping those who don’t use it very much use it more.

And is it among these secondary speakers where we should see growth?

It must grow everywhere. We need those that already speak Catalan as a habitual language to abandon some of their routines when they see someone dressed a certain way, for example... They don’t think about it, it’s not done out of bad faith. We must learn to integrate linguistically and we can only do this if we are able to share the language. And always speak in Catalan. If we do this, we will greatly increase the use of Catalan. It’s like a dance. We need those who know to help those who know less, but we need someone to start the dance because otherwise there is no dance. Those of us who like languages and learn them, when we go to a country and we want to start practicing, if we see that they switch to English, we think: “Shame, now I’ve lost the opportunity to learn.” We do this systematically and it’s very tiring trying to learn a language when people won’t speak it to you.

Returning to the survey, the number of people who speak and know Catalan is growing, but not at the same rate as the population. This means that you can live in Catalonia without knowing any Catalan.

We don’t need these findings to know that: the fact that you can live in Catalonia without speaking Catalan has been the case for quite some time, it’s not new. It is necessary to understand it, however, because, if you don’t, you missout on a lot of things. Now, does this mean that Catalan is useless? No, it doesn’t. Catalan is used for many things. First of all, to access all areas related to working in Catalan. It’s widely used in the world of work, there are many jobs where it’s very preferred. The analysed data show that, among people who work outside the administration and who do not have Catalan as a first language, those who have learned it tend to be better off than those who have not. Therefore, Catalan does continue to have an instrumental value. And it also has a symbolic value of demonstrating the desire to integrate, to be part of the local team. What we need is for this instrumental and symbolic value to grow. And this must be done by administrations, companies and individuals.

Would companies be one of the areas to influence?

Yes, from two points of view. On the one hand, from the point of improving the presence of Catalan. Catalan is a tool with which to approach customers. We work on this here in my Department. And, for example, together with the Consortium, we’ve created the Ofercat, where we analyse the courses on offer and language availability in cities and towns in Catalonia and, from there, we take actions to improve the use of languages. We also work to incorporate the language in labelling. We have already managed to ensure that a large number of cars have instruction manuals in Catalan online and that a great many textile companies incorporate it into their labels, and that large companies have it on their websites. Systematic work is being done in this respect by ourselves, civil society and the companies. Work must once again be a place of linguistic integration. Companies have a social responsibility, which involves respecting the right of access to the language, for example. People who come from abroad to work here must have the right to access the language. And this can be done in the Consortium courses, which we are promoting, but we also want to incorporate the learning of the language in the workplace. And here, companies and employers have a lot to say, because they are the ones who can ask their workers to learn Catalan if they don’t know it, and also value it, from their arrival.

Plataforma per la Llengua are asking for more commitment from the authorities because we are witnessing a language emergency that is getting worse. Do you agree with that?

We always say that the situation is diverse, complex, that there are worrying trends that make it delicate, and that it is reversible. It’s not just the demographics, there are many factors. And what we also don’t want is to simplify it to just one issue. What we agree on with Plataforma and with the entities is the need to act a lot. Maximum commitment and willingness to act, because the moment is complex and delicate.

Is language immersion failing? What should be done?

One thing that is being done is the ULAE workshops from Educació amb Inspecció for teachers to reflect and analyse the language practices of their school and see if they are getting where they wanted to and see how they can correct it, because there’s a lot of diversity. We need teachers to have tools and training on managing the situation of multilingualism. Especially those in secondary schools, but also some primary schools, many have not received specific training on how immersion works. We need more training in this area for teachers. And we need teachers to finish their university studies already with the necessary level, which is C2.

Have we lost a bit of linguistic awareness in recent years?

There are two things here. The first is that there have been very large demographic changes, which have had an impact on the population. We had other things in mind than the language itself. We haven’t put it at the centre of the political agenda, there have been other priorities. And now we realise that this has had a series of consequences in the linguistic field. It’s always a good time to start emphasising it and adopting a linguistic perspective, that is, thinking about the linguistic consequences of what we’re doing. Everyone can look at how they use language in their personal life, starting with the language they have on their mobile phone. If I have it in Catalan, I ensure its ranking is higher in the internet world and the applications I have recognise me as a Catalan user.

Carme Junyent has said that Catalan is in danger of extinction and that one thing that threatened languages share is that people are often unaware of it until it’s too late.

As I said, the situation of Catalan is diverse, complex, delicate and reversible. Languages do not have a predetermined future, rather it’s determined by societies making decisions. If we make the wrong decisions, we will make mistakes. It’s about making the best decisions.

interview Catalan LANGUAGE

A supporter of independence

Francesc Xavier Vila (Esplugues de Llobregat, 1966) is the Minister of Linguistic Policy and an independent in the government led by the socialist Salvador Illa. The creation of this department was one of ERC’s agreements with the PSC to invest the 133rd president of the Generalitat. A Professor of Catalan sociolinguistics in the Department of Catalan Philology and General Linguistics at the University of Barcelona, Vila was already secretary of Linguistic Policy in the government led by Pere Aragonès, also as an independent. Shortly before becoming a Minister, he stated that he is “pro-independence” but that he agreed to be part of the socialist government because Illa made him “the same proposal” that Aragonès had made him in the previous government.